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THEMA: Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc.

Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 1 Monat 2 Wochen her #16526

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First, big thanks to @raess and others for undertaking this.

Before I add my experience and thoughts here couple of things I have to mention:
- I have "original"/"experimental" chassis from the shop and used the robot for one season already. Had some minor issues and repairs here and there, but in the end of the day it served the whole summer well
- I am fairly new to 3D printing. I got my CR-10 maybe 2 months ago.
- I have no experience in Fusion360 or anything like that
- I don't expect things to go smooth both because of my lack of experience in the subject and understanding that this is still ongoing project.

So, here it goes.

I've decided to give it a try and print the robot parts. There are couple of reasons why I like it:
- Rear wheel drive (there are some places in my lawn near the trees, where front wheeler can get stuck)
- Possibility to have 2 mower discs (single one just barely manages to maintain lawn running 2 x 3.5 hours / day for ~1000m^2 of grass).
- nice looks (why not :) )

For printing I'm using Cura as slicer, PETG, micro-swiss full metal 0.6mm nozzle, 1.2mm walls (will try 1.8 for wheels), 20-50% octet infill

So far, I've got:
- Motor boxes and lids,
- mower boxes, holders and covers,
- chassis mounts
- battery box
- alu mounts
- PCB cover front and back
- Parts 4 and 11 (the frame for PCB box(?), which is not yet available in Thingiverse yet?)
- Part 3 (display holder on the back) and wheel arch (was part 1, but now gone from thingiverse, replaced by wheel parts)

As someone already mentioned, the wheel arch doesn't look sturdy enough and I broke it easily by trying to remove support material (it is somewhat harder to do that on with PETG).
Basically the area that holds wheel arch is ~35x7mm. Printing with 1.2mm shell is definitely not enough.
If the arch would connect to horinzontal plane throughout all length, it probably would be ok, as there wouldn't be much flex left.
I couldn't figure out reasonable way to print screen holder, because there will be supports necessary in places, where it is hard to remove then in case of PETG.
Trying to attach wheel arch to the screen holder didn't ended well either. I suspect that either the clearance is "just enough" and/or the support material (I printed it horizontally, thus support material had to fill the gap) wasn't removed to the extent required (I've tried my best) and natural PETG flex was not enough to handle.
Basically, I had problems sticking the parts together and then broke the display mount :|

Motor boxes print well without any supports. And connect using 36.5mm 2020 alu extrusion with 4 M4 bolts with T nuts and 3 additional M4 bolts with nuts.
2020 Alu extrusion mounts attach to the motor boxes with M4 bolts and nuts 8 for each mount.
These parts print and join fine. I've printed them at 1.2mm shell, but probably it would be worth to go with 1.8mm shell for motor boxes.
I don't have an idea how to close/attach the motor boxes lids later (wood screws?)

What I'd like to do, is to build a chassis that has basic necessary elements: PCB, battery, all motors.
What I still miss are:
- I don't know the length of the 2020 extrusions for the chassis (the long ones)
- STL's for front wheel holder (I guess that might chane later, but still that would allow me to test things) and PCB box.
Having these parts would allow me to "migrate" current mower parts to the new place and see what works and what not "in the field" :)

Currently started printing wheels. 1.8mm shell /w 50% infill. It is estimated to print ~1.5 days with these settings :)
One remark however. Because they have these cavities in the back side. They will be filled with the grass cuts pretty fast (by the opposite mower disk). I guess it would be best having flat surface on the back side of the wheels. Though, must admit, they look cool.

Hope that helps someone.
If you're interested seeing updates and/or pics of the build - let me know.
Also, if you have ideas for part print settings, orientation (to make it faster and less supports), let me know.

Cheers,
Romualdas

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 1 Woche 1 Tag her #16730

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Finished printing outer shell using STL's done by Paddy ( here ).
Highly recommended:
- they connect well
- don't break so easily (especially around wheel arches)
- Do not require supports in many cases
Quite a few M3 and M4 screws are required to join the parts together.

Folgende Benutzer bedankten sich: Paddy

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 1 Woche 21 Stunden her #16732

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Dammed, you have been faster than me :-)
Currently, I'm doing some changes to blade protection. So you may want to wait until this weekend before you start printing them.

Nice to see it assembled (mine is still a puzzle) and good to hear that everything fits fine.

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 1 Woche 20 Stunden her #16733

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Thanks, I will definitely wait for the updated designs.

One note regarding joining back part to the wheel arches.

The marked screws have to be flat head screws, because pan heads will be too high and the provided cover will not be able to close.

Also, I have used wood screws for connecting parts there:

This is because the holes are way too close (at least I didn't managed) for the nut to fit in.
Anhang:

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 1 Woche 17 Stunden her #16734

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Thank you for sharing your experience.
I changed the wheelhouse part you marked. Now you're be able to insert a zylinder head screw (this one www.schrauben-lexikon.de/norm/DIN_912.asp ), the way that the screw head doesn't show out anymore. I add the new part to my thread where I collect all changes..

For the other screws, which kind did you try? I was able to add DIN 912 (see link above) M3 with washers and nuts without issue.

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Letzte Änderung: von Paddy.

Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 1 Woche 3 Stunden her #16741

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I've tried to get these in: DIN7985
There are couple of things however to keep in mind.
I'm printing with 0.6 nozzle and 0.6 width and 0,3 height (a bit faster printing), but it looks like rounding errors creep in.
In my case the hole edge on the smaller part ended-up almost touching the wall.
Probably, I could have pre-drilled/adjusted positioning before I started assembling them, but I didn't.
Also, I don't think using wood screws is a problem here.
The parts attach to the top frame, so they won't move. Also, I plan to apply some epoxy afterwards anyway.

To summarize:
If you're using 0.6+ nozzle: be prepared to do some extra grinding, filing, drilling, etc. :cheer:

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 6 Tage 11 Stunden her #16746

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Disassembled v1 for parts and started assembling chassis.
First things first - this happened to me on old chassis:

The clamp (Spannelement) scratched material of the shaft so much that the wheel was barely holding on.
The other motor/shaft was fine.

So, after disassembling old mower, I've moved some of the parts to new chassis:
.
My custom 9Ah battery just barely fits (because of the cable layout mainly), but fits:

Parts mostly original v2 designed by Robin, except cover - designed by Paddy.
Prints stable, has rim that covers PCB box and the hinges are sturdier, they do not brake so easily.


After combining everything together got this:




I used dampers from V1.
The dampers in the back sit quite tight in the well and don't have much freedom to move.

While trying to attach the front one to the hinge - it had split:

The problem is that the original design has fairly small hole (M6?), while the nut on the male-female damper is M8(?)
I used drill on the other one to have bigger hole and it worked just fine.
Now re-printing broken part using Paddy's design.
Folgende Benutzer bedankten sich: Paddy, gimate

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 6 Tage 3 Stunden her #16747

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Really good work. I've started my assembly yesterday. Sadly I ran out of filament, so I need to wait a couple of days to complete the lower chassis parts. Yours seems to be nearly complete now. Please note, that my version of PCB brackets have the same diameter of holes. So you might need to change the stl files.

With dampers of shop, is it possible to move the chassis and does it re-position to center after? I wonder if they work for a moving chassis design or if I should by more flexible ones.

Cut cover is ready now and available on Thingiverse ;-)

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 6 Tage 2 Stunden her #16749

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Haven't tried to edit STL's, so I guess more walls, greater infill density and "use the drill" method will work best for me :-D

Regarding the dampers:
The dampers from the shop are quite stiff. Rubber seems very hard and You have to apply quite some force to budge them.
Hard to say exactly, but I guess I can force maybe 1mm or 2mm max by hand.
They are more like shock absorber to me. Like, if you hit them fast and hard - they will flex, but then immediately return (yes, they reposition).
I doubt that they will work for bumper using moving shell approach.
I have already printed new PCB brackets. I will try to replace them today, tighten the shell to chassis and see how much flex is there.
Will report it here.

As a little side note regarding shell as a bumper approach.
When I have placed the shell on top of the chassis and aligned the damper holes with the shell holes, the shell seem to already touch the front part of PCB box, so in that case it wouldn't be able to move back.
I am not 100% sure yet as I haven't tightened the parts yet, but ...

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 6 Tage 2 Stunden her #16750

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Did you already start your print? If not, I'll change it for you, no problem.

Thanks for the hint regarding dampers. I thought they will be to stiff, I will try to purchase others or I print them myself (flex fimalent or silicone mold).

There is not much space between chassis and PCB box, I know. That's the reason why I try to build something different than the two "frame" parts. I will either create smaller ones or I will replace them with aluminium stripes. I will see, when everything is ready.

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 5 Tage 23 Stunden her #16751

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Yes, I have it already waiting for me on the print-bed.

I will see this weekend (maybe even tonight) how much of the space is left between PCB and shell, when I'll re-assemble and put chassis and shell together.

And for the dampers, I am thinking about using springs, but those have to be right stiffness and right height, otherwise wheel arch may touch the wheel.
The clearance between the arch and the wheel is not that big.

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 5 Tage 17 Stunden her #16754

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Thanks for your posts! How much fillament did you use for these parts?

Could you please place the top or bottom part of the original chassis beside the printed one to compare the size?

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Барашек I : Ardumower 1.2 Board mit BumperDuino, ShieldBuddy, 2 Perimeterspulen

spiralfahrt MOD
GitHub: github.com/ainagtur/ardumower/tree/Spiral
Wiki: wiki.ardumower.de/index.php?title=Archimedean_spiral

Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 5 Tage 11 Stunden her #16757

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Today I have tried to tighten shell to the chassis.
Two things are clear now:
- With the dampers from the V1 mower (from the shop), the top part won't budge at all. Thus, if you want to use shell as a bumper like Automower does, the dampers from shop won't work.
- There's a very small gap between shell and the PCB box, only ~3mm, however my guess that even if it would move because of hinges and other corners the space is even less (pics attached)



And one more thing. I have installed this front wheel: https://products.tente.com/uk-en/2470dik075p40.html 75mm diameter total height of 100mm. Attached to the not yet finished front bracket from https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3029375 . If the robot would drive backwards, the front wheel would hit the shell in front (just a bit).
Anhang:

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 5 Tage 11 Stunden her #16758

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I didn't tracked exact amount and as I'm new to 3d printing, therefore I have quite a steep (read "expensive") learning curve :lol:
Just an example: before paddy made a wheel design, I've printed the V2 original in one go. In order to have back covered, I've added 2mm thick disk right in cura and merge-printed them there with 50% infill. The result: whooping 700g wheel :ohmy: :woohoo: :blink:
Now Paddy's design does the same with much less plastic involved and I might need to reprint it.

And here is the V1-V2 size comparison
Anhang:
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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 4 Tage 18 Stunden her #16760

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Started assembling mower boxes. Note that the motor can be attached using either M4 or M5 screws.
The holes in the mower box match the location of M5 holes, but size ... used the drill again to make them right size :)

(Again, this might be the issue that I'm printing with 0.6 layer width).

This is how it looks almost assembled:


After attaching to the frame, I've tried to raise mower box to the maximum, where you still could bolt the mower box to the holder.
This would result in approximate cut height of ~5cm and would be a bit below outer shell.


However, in reality that won't happen as the cut cover has the rim, which touches the blade if it is raised to 5cm height.


So, my best guess is that with current setup max cutting height is ~4+cm. I'm ok with that, but you have to decide for yourself.

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 4 Tage 17 Stunden her #16761

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I have suddenly realized that because the 3D printed (a.k.a. V2) version is a bit wider than the original/experimental/V1 - there might be a problem with the perimeter wire distance from the objects like terraces, fences and so on (only if you have been running V1 with perimeter wire).

When installing perimeter wire for V1, I've measured the distance and have installed (buried) the wire so that V1 would be as close as possible to the perimeter objects without hitting them. Don't recall exactly the number, but probably around 20 or 30cm in places where the mower goes parallel with the objects.
Now, because the mower is wider, it can possibly start hitting the objects while tracking the perimeter.

Potential perimeter wire re-install ... sigh ... :huh:

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 4 Tage 16 Stunden her #16765

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Thank you for sharing all your progress. You may be the 2nd or 3th person who assembled a complete chassis. There are some drawbacks and issues left, so we have to investigate further. Because it is 3D printed, we can change some parts if they don't work.

The cutting height is one part I was wondering. Do you know how much space is left between blades and battery box when mow motors are un upper position? My battery is larger so I need to redesign it. It looks ok in Fusion 360 but I have to test if it will work assembled.

Regarding perimeter fence, leave it as it is for beginning. Who says perimeter receiver only works when it is centered on chassis? On my current chassis, it is also some cm off center and it works great. So before changing perimeter, try to install it off center.

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 4 Tage 14 Stunden her #16766

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When it is set to those ~5cm, where's ~3.2cm between battery box (V2 original).
As I've mentioned - the disc will have to go lower, in order to clear the cover, so the distance between disc and battery box will increase.
Will check for it tomorrow, when I'll align the things together.

Do you use blade disc from the shop or something else?
Mine "broke": the threaded insert was pulled out together with the blade on the last day of the season.
I'm thinking either buying new one, but they are not available in the shop ATM, or refurbishing existing (need to drill new holes and buy new inserts), but maybe you have some other options thoughts :)

Also, it is about the time to start thinking where to put all wires, sensors, switches, etc.

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 4 Tage 2 Stunden her #16767

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Hi.
Paddy say:

So before changing perimeter, try to install it off center.

And Yes you can change the position of the receiver coil.
I use On my paranello Platform the monted left coil and it's work perfectly for mowing , tracking etc... You can find video of this on YouTube.
The Only issue is that depending to the angle the mower go over wire, it never stop at the same distance and can bump obstacle or cut flower :)
Waiting for the first test ;)

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Printing experience: settings, suggestions, etc. 3 Tage 15 Stunden her #16780

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Here is an update again with CORRECTIONS regarding cutting height from previous post.

Assembled and attached cut covers, tightened the shell to the chassis.
Assembly is easy, except that getting bolts through the gaps is somewhat difficult and I couldn't get one to the end.
In addition, had to drill the hole (on the left in the image) to make the bolt fit.

Again, I guess the 0.6mm layer width had the effect.
Attaching the covers to the shell - no problem at all.

The result looks like:


Now regarding cutting height.
First thing my mower is slightly higher in the front than in the back and even trying to compensate the height difference by mowing mower motors, I couldn't get it level.
When the cutting distance is ~5cm (the actual difference in the pictures):

There is about 5-8mm distance from the cutting edge to the cutter cover rim and about 3cm from the cutting disc to battery


The one thing that can get in the way between chassis and shell are mower motor box covers. They have to be oriented the higher part to the front.

Hope that helps :)
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Letzte Änderung: von romualdas. Begründung: Duplicate picture in the post
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